Thursday, 03 March 2016
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In real Formula 1, cars are submitted for FIA scrutiny before and after each session to make sure each team/driver is complying with the regulations. For us, this is not possible of course because we are in a simulated environment.



In the spirit of keeping the league as clean as possible and to avoid the famous "cheater" label on a driver, how would you like the following to be implemented for this season:



- Just like each driver in real Formula 1 brings his car back to the FIA after a session, you would do the same by submitting the Motec Log after a Grand Prix within a specified time frame.



- Our league steward, Janos Magasrevy, would run the log through a Motec workspace and check it for irregularities.



- If everything checks out, the driver results are validated, if not, depending on the irregularity found, a driver might be suspended from the league.



Any thoughts on this idea?

8 years ago
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#887
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I thought with the release of rF2 those days were over but after a quick google search discovered cheating is alive and well.

That being said I don't have a problem with it.

My only input about the rule would be some type of a mulligan system just in the case a PC doesn't record the data like its suppose to. Maybe a three strikes thing. If you had more then 3 occasions you couldn't provide the data then a penalty could be given. Maybe also just collect results from the top 10. Or maybe like a random drug test?

Just my 2 cents

Cheers
8 years ago
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#888
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I don't run Motec so not sure how I'd get that to the stewards.
8 years ago
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#889
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I don't have a problem supplying MoTec data, even though I normally do not run it during actual races afraid the plugin will crash and take rF2 along for the ride...and what Sam said.
8 years ago
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#890
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I think that this is vital. If someone is cheating they are probably not the ones typically in the top 10 of the points, because that type of consistency to get to that type of competitive driving ability cannot be counterfeited. Those who may be cheating may be those who blaze a real fast Q time but are often off the track or causing crashes.

If that is true then the cheaters don't turn up as the competitive winners, their "contribution" to the competition is to ruin it for everyone they take out when they crash time and again.

If this rule is implemented then all I have to do is figure out why I get the error message telling me that Motec is not recording. It has something to do with allowing a folder to be made and files written to it, or something like that, I can't remember.

Known cheats, how they are detected, precisely what is done by the cheater to the code, and how that affects the car performance, if published, where everyone can see it, might go long way toward discouraging cheating, especially when an effective "lie detector" is potentially employed on everyone equally: no tolerance.

Janos Magasrevy
SRH Founder and Director

8 years ago
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#894
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I like the 3 strike idea proposed by Sam.

Glen, would you be open to running Motec?

Janos Magasrevy
SRH Founder and Director

8 years ago
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#895
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I suppose I could do that. Would need some direction on installation and how to send the correct files. Do many other ppl run Motec while racing? I've heard some ppl say if they run Motec while racing it causes their Rfactor to crash. Please advise.
8 years ago
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#896
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I'm always recording Motec and its been pretty bullet proof. My rF hasn't crashed in along time but I'm also running a beast of a PC.
8 years ago
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#900
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Mine is a 3 year old regular desktop with a video card. ASUS GeForce GTX 660 DirectCU II OC . That's it no extra memory or anything else. Oh sorry, it does have a 600W power supply.
8 years ago
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#903
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If we're going to do this every race then everyone should try and run it during the Turkey Race.
8 years ago
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#921
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Gents, we'll try this on our next test. If you don't have the telemetry plugin installed, please follow the instructions on this post: How to setup Motec Telemetry
8 years ago
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#923
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For those that want to test the system, here's the link to upload a telemetry log: http://www.simracinghub.com/leagues/submit-telemetry-log

It's very straight forward, you select your log file (the one that ends with a .ld extension) and upload it!

Janos Magasrevy
SRH Founder and Director

8 years ago
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#925
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Glen Thomas wrote:

I don't run Motec so not sure how I'd get that to the stewards.


I don't either
8 years ago
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#926
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I can test to see if Motec can now fiind the folder for the log file.

To me, again, knowing which cheats are out there, what they do, and how to detect them, with or without Motec, would go a long way toward defending against such things, as the saying goes an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Janos Magasrevy
SRH Founder and Director

8 years ago
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#929
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I had to edit the first line in the Motec .ini file (located in C: drive rFactor root not "documents" rFactor folder. I was able to edit the Motec.ini file while it was stored in the default downloads folder, it was not possible to edit the Motec .ini file while that file was in the C: drive rFactor root (programsx86), because I was not able to run "File Explorer" with Win 10 with "Run as Administrator."

So I changed the Motec.ini file to read:

Log dir = "C:\Users\Joe II\Documents\rFactor2\UserData\Log\Motec\" // Directory to log to; relative to rFactor root if not absolute (e.g. "C:\Log files\")

Saving that edit work in the downloads folder is possible, and then cut and paste to the C: drive rFactor root file (not documents) is also possible because I get an error message that allows me to cut and paste (as administrator), with the edited Motect.ini.

I also created a "documents" UserData\Log file named Motec. I can do that without "Administrator" access.

So a test at COTA generates files in the newly created folder because the C: drive rFactor root Motec. ini file now knows where to stick the file, and that ain't where the sun don't shine.

Everyone knowing how the cheats work, what the cheats actually do, and how to detect the cheats, if at all possible, is a long, long, long, way toward preventing cheating, because everyone will then know who (if anyone) dares to cheat with some very fine competitors who don't cheat.

Janos Magasrevy
SRH Founder and Director

8 years ago
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#930
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I don't normally run motec in races but I have a few times and never a problem with rfactor crashing for me. had it on last test.

if implemented I like the 3 strike rule. ya never know if it works i guess. i don't think anyone is cheating here though.
8 years ago
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#933
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Yeah I don't think anyone here is cheating either, but this would add an extra layer of confidence.

I would suggest you guys run Motec this Thursday to check your systems, and also test the upload feature on the website.

Janos Magasrevy
SRH Founder and Director

8 years ago
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#934
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As for what cheats are out there, I don't know them.

I assume that if we are going to collect telemetry logs, we should be looking into abnormal fuel consumption, abnormal tire wear, things of that matter. Ideas are welcome.

Janos Magasrevy
SRH Founder and Director

8 years ago
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#936
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I am all for checking (if possible) cheats so I have Motec working and able to generate files. When rFactor was new I remember cheats showing up that were easy to see on the track. Someone playing with the cheats was easy to spot because they had no racing line, like someone having no clue as to what a fast line is, or what is not a fast line around the track, yet the driver failing to even know how to make the best use of the track was able to go much faster then those who were "staying within the lines."

The most obvious cheats I can see would be added acceleration in all directions, which includes negative acceleration (braking) and tire grip (without wear).

Again, it does not figure that cheating can be done while lap times are more or less close at the top, where a few thousands of a second sometimes separate the fastest drivers. In order for that to happen there must be more than one cheater, and each is trying their best to out cheat the other cheater, but each cheater is doing so in subtle incriments.

Add just a little less drag or more engine power, add a little more grip, a little less tire wear, a little more braking power, just enough for an edge over the other cheaters?

It doesn't make sense when the idea is to compete. Race to be the least obvious cheater?

Having a method of checking (solid, irrefutable, evidence) would go a long way toward preventing new drivers from spoiling the competition.

If the method for checking is not solid, then it is worse than wasting time, because the cheaters are then encouraged to cheat, because they know they can pass the lie detector test.

Janos Magasrevy
SRH Founder and Director

8 years ago
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#937
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Found this on the web and I think we should give it a try in this test (Austin):

http://www.simracingtools.com/

Apparently they offer an anti-cheat service, I just registered our league and we have 60 days to demo it.

All you have to do is this:

1) Register on their page.
2) Link your user to the SimRacingHub league.
3) Download the Windows client from http://www.simracingtools.com/index.php?wsp=shdn.
4) Make sure you follow their installation instructions at http://www.simracingtools.com/index.php?wsp=shdn.
5) Open the client and login.
6) You should now be set, just make sure you have the client running and are logged in whenever you race.

Janos Magasrevy
SRH Founder and Director

8 years ago
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#938
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So no motec now? I'm going to be setting this stuff up tonight and need to know what I need to do.
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